In doing so myself, I frequent a lot of blogs that do not much more than post cool pictures of bikes. Mainly choppers, specifically bobber style choppers, Jap. style bobbers, and Brat style bobbers.
Of these many sites, several pictures are posted that show Swastikas. Particularly what appears to be the Nazi Germany Swastika. So I have to ask myself, WTF? WTF is with the chopper cult and the Nazi Swastika?
This has been on my mind for quite some time. While going on the internet to find a picture to post, the first place I went was Wikipedia. There, I learned a ton more information is available on the history of the Swastika, and it was widely used prior to Nazi Germany taking it as their symbol.
As much as I love visiting and looking at these pictures, I still wonder why the chopper cult has latched onto the Nazi Germany symbol. Do they think it is cool? I think people sporting Swastikas look like prejudiced uneducated dumb fucks myself. What the Hell does it have to do with riding motorcycles anyway?
I just don't get it.
does it have anything to do with mc's and the military or WW's? maybe its a fascination with guns, bikes, wars, death, ..... ?!? hmmm, i dont know, you got me. good question. i can say the bering museum always rotates hitler era vehicles (bikes, cars, util's) and it draws big history and military crowds.
ReplyDeleteI guess I've been around long enough to have read some stuff in the '60s on the swastika use by bike clubs back then.
ReplyDeleteThe story then was that the 1% clubs wanted to do as much as they could to shock the public and wearing a symbol of an enemy we had defeated in a horrific war less than 20 years previously was a pretty good way to do it.
The German cross or Maltese Cross fell into the same category but was co-opted by the more mainstream Schneider Cams and the surfing and skateboard community so it fell a little bit out of favor with the 1% crowd while the swastika retained, and still does, it's offensiveness to civilized people.
Some people take offense to the German Cross but it pre-dates the Nazis by quite a long time.
I second what Doug said.
ReplyDeleteIt was all about shock value.
The 1% in the sixties and early seventies also used to great each other which a full on kiss on the lips...[which can be seen in the opening of Hells Angels 69]
were they gay?...No, Did it shock the hell out of 'civilians and cops'?
Hell Yes!!
Today it's mostly worn by supremacist's
Doug and Big D are right on. I grew up and started in this in the 60's. It is in my blood one might say. I came home with a cross on back in maybe like 66 and my dad read my the riot act. He was a WWII Vet Purple Heart and Silver Star Vet. I took it off and never wore it again. Or a swastika. As you now know Mark there are a lot of good in that symbol. My native blood used it for the good of man. Peace, fertility, and many other things depending on color and such.
ReplyDeleteI agree with Doug, BD and WW's comments. However, the question I got from the post was dealing with the "Chopper Culture" not the 1% folks.
ReplyDeleteWhat I see today are basically "Sims" people who are creating a "Second Life" the do it to be different and do so by attaching themselves to the symbols of a lifestyle that they fantisize about being a part of.
There are lots of them, internet bikers, custom bikers, vintage hotroders, the list could go on an on. Is it bad? To each their own I say. I have to admit though, many of these would be sub-culturist have damaged their home and professional lives on whats basically only a fantasy to them.
Think of it, I go to a bike show and have my picture taken next to two hotties clad in the "stars N bars" or a swastika, post on my facebook page, cause I'm cool like that.....then....someone at work googles me and finds it.....the first time I say something remotely questionable at the workplace the accusations are coming, cause the seed was planted....
Just a little side fact..
ReplyDeleteThe swastika used by Hitler in the American Indiains is different in one respect..
Hitler intentionally reversed the direction of the 'tines' to counter-clockwise instead of clockwise to make it his own symbol.
Just a little factiod I picked up somewhere over the years.
I was going to say the same thing BigD did.
ReplyDeleteThe symbol used by the Nazi's was a Native American sign for peace or something like that. At least that is what those turds in Native American History told me. The Nazi symbol is flipped though, which might mean the opposite of peace I suppose. Who knows. Hitler was very interested in the Native American.
I can't figure out as to why people think or do half the shit they do. I gave up a long time ago. All I can do now is stand up for what I know to be right, without tromping on some other persons rights, and thats it.
No doubt the symbol has been around for thousands of years. It has not a single negative interpretation. Only one HUGE negative association with Nazi Germany. The link below shows the 45th Infantry bage prior to 1939.
ReplyDeleteJust goes to show....
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/45th_Infantry_Division_(United_States)
It was sorta a Jolly Roger type of thing back then.
ReplyDeleteI am a Vet and you make no sense.
ReplyDeleteThe sign has for centuries brought nothing but war and death. It is one of the reasons the world is so screwed up. Oh, did I mention that it is the cross. Enough said.
ReplyDeleteThe symbol represents a destruction and murdering of millions of people for millions of families. Its a gross symbol of death. If there was any good in the symbol beforehand, the good did not pan out in the long run. The shock value is still there. It stinks.
ReplyDeletebattle worn U.S vets brought tons of medals,swords,pistols,flags etc back as trophies,maybe from the hunting culture,and motorcycle riders after the war wore they're german helmet or iron cross for decoration of course this is mostly lost on main stream folks who took offense then and now.so in old school circles these still exist,it doesnt mean much tho.if anything its kinda a slap in the face of nazis,with those long haired bastards wearing they're loot.
ReplyDeleteare ya'll kidding? the fellas earlier were spot on, it was a1percent thing...
ReplyDeleteand if u don't think the 1%er of those days wasnt racist your crazy....altamond?
its just the way it is, it started as 1%er thing. now the 60s "club bikes"are popular so its cool to so joe blo follows
To the last Anonymous poster. First off, grow a set and give a name. Second, Who he fuck cares if the douchebags who like old school think it's cool. It's not. I like old school and don't think the swastika is cool. Its still racist now days. There are a lot of other ways to be cool than sporting a racist symbol for shock value.
ReplyDeleteI was wondering the same dammed question today. With the old motorcycles revival thing, I get to see a lot of these signs, and I am surprised because 60 years later people are supposed to be aware of the true meaning of those symbols. I don't care about the fact that it used to be a buddhist symbol, because it s not the way it s intended to be perceived when worn by tattoed uneducated rednecks (with all respect)
ReplyDeleteI think it s not a good thing that people rock these thinking of freedom, but as long as I read constructive comments and blog articles like this one, I ll stay confident that they will never be a majority. So thank you.
Thanks to all for the infos, and to mr motorcycle for asking such an important question.
ReplyDeleteAss gas or grass, no one rides for free
Peace
Symbolistic terrorism is terrorism none the less. I agree the symbol is seen as racist but at some point we need to take the meaning of the symbol back to its roots. This action alone hits the heinous act that was committed by Nazi Germany down a notch. Think about how fucking awesome it would be to put a positive spin on the swastika. you know how much business we could drive into the tattoo cover up business?
ReplyDeleteWell, I certainly don't think the Nazi regime was cool, but just like some of you have said, it was all for shock value. I don't sport any of that stuff because I don't like the message. If you have a problem with the nazi sign, or a similar logo.....?...... DON'T WEAR IT.
ReplyDeleteThe old school respects those that are themselves. I don't sport any Chop Cult shit with Charles Manson on it either. He wasn't cool to me so....
Be yourself.
Tricky Smith
Swasitikas were common in the US pre WWII. Good luck symbols. I have baskets with the design woven into it, a friend who collects this Pre war US Swastika stuff has boxer shorts with swastikas, greeting cards with swastikas, etc. There are examples at the museum in Hyde Park where the Roosevelt home is. Also the US 45th Division, originally had a Swastika as it's Divisional ID Patch, they changed it rather early in the war to a Thunderbird.
ReplyDeleteThis has been on my mind lately with all the nonsense surrounding Marine Scout Sniper units in Iraq and Afghanistan using the SS runes and death's head.
Here is my take on it: WWII was over in 1945. We had trials, we went after war criminals. There are certain items of heraldry that pre date and/or do not have Nazi connotations unless we give them Nazi connotations. Using lightning bolts for the "S" in Scout and in Sniper is graphic design, it simply looks cool. A death's head, well, it's a death's head, been around in one form or another for centuries. The 17th Lancers use one in the Brit army, many miltary units have used it, pirates, symbol for "no quarter" as is a plain black flag. It's meant to instill fear and dread in your enemy and esprit de corps in your unit. Certainly no one accuses members of our USMC Scout Sniper units of being Nazis? or Schutze Staffel (SS) which do not exist anymore etc. It comes down to how many ways can you make an "S" look cool or badass--not many, so a lighning bolt it is. Do they use same font and style? Sometimes. I think it's time to stop whining about something that isn't there and let these guys take it back and change it's meaning. I for one would love to read something like "SS runes or letters as used by USMC Scout Snipers. at one time a symbol of an infamous and elite miitary group in 1940's Germany..." etc Let's take away their "evil power" and meaning. I dont mean forget the past, but focus on the current usage and focus on the deeds in the past, not the type font and letters or even the graphic design or symbol.
A Swastika used before WWII Germany adopted it, used during that period by many other groups and cultures that had diofferent meanings, well it evokes the imagery of Nazi germany, but it has meant so much more over time. The Swastika reversed is a Native American variation, it is mainly seen the way we know it. The Swastika's used by Buddhists and by those pre war in US were spokes going same was as they were by WWII Germany.
Anyway the point I am making is to spur discussion, to make these symbols powerless in their meaning of hate.
Now the big question, would I have a Swastika on my bike? or SS runes? I'll answer this way: If it's a survivor bike/chopper from 1960's and that is what is original to the bike, yes for historical anbd collectible reasons. if it's a current chop I am making, out of deference to those I currently would offend, no I wouldn't -but I would think that it would add a cool period style to the build--regardless of whether I'd actually do it. If that makes sense? Meaning I don't feel like constantly explaining why it's there, that I am not a racist etc etc or hurting someone when that isnt my intent.
From what I have learned from biker friends of mine is that when the WW2 vets came home and started clubs and what not they would put the SS bolts and or swastikas on there gear and or bike showing that they had fought and killed nazi's. A lot of what they used were trophy's they had brought back from the war. It also being an intimidating thing it lasted. BUT got twisted along the years and went from being a trophy of WW2 vet bikers to being a symbol of hate now. I feel if the old WW2 biker vet's saw what is (On some) going on with it now they would be pissed!
ReplyDeleteThanks for your input Mad Dog LDP OBC.
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